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RiverSong

Princess Raises Grats Again

41 posts in this topic

Princess Cruises have become the latest line to raise gratuities.  After the 15th December the daily rate per passenger will be as follows

Inside, Ocean view & Balcony $13.50 (Extra $0.55)

Mini Suites $14.50 (Extra $0.55)

Suites $15.50 (Extra $1.55)

Princess have stated the reason for this is to ensure the service on board remains among the best in the industry.

If you have a cruise booked you’ll be able to pre pay your grats at the current rate up till 15th November.

 

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Princess Cruises have become the latest line to raise gratuities.  After the 15th December the daily rate per passenger will be as follows

Inside, Ocean view & Balcony $13.50 (Extra $0.55)

Mini Suites $14.50 (Extra $0.55)

Suites $15.50 (Extra $1.55)

Princess have stated the reason for this is to ensure the service on board remains among the best in the industry.

If you have a cruise booked you’ll be able to pre pay your grats at the current rate up till 15th November.

Without getting into the whole tipping debate I do have to say that it really annoys me that cruising companies keep spilling out this pathetic reason for increasing the amount.

I'm sorry but the company should be ensuring the service  remains amongst the best and not the passengers, just my opinion.

HLM, sinbad10 and RiverSong like this

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How can increasing the cost of gratuities ensure the service remains the best in he industry? To ensure that they need increase the number of supervisors which is a wage bill issue not gratuities.

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Well this is the second time in 2016 Princess have increased grats so dont think it will stop P&O.

I agree, that'll be the third increase in two years if it materialises.

HLM.

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I did notice in the new P&O brochure that they no longer have the amount they will charge for gratuities I expect they are thinking of increasing again.

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I'm sorry to keep repeating myself but I really think it's time to stop the gratuities and include it in the price of the cruise. All the companies are doing now is making some passengers subside others. 

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I flatly refuse to pay gratuities for someone simply doing their job. If they do something which is above and beyond what is expected of them, then I may consider a gratuity to be appropriate. If the cruise companies paid their staff a proper wage there would not be the need for gratuities. If they paid a proper wage cruises may become too expensive for some and the Cruise Bubble the companies are enjoying at the moment will burst. Then see the prices tumble as they try to cut each others throats. Cruise companies are building bigger and better ships because they are raking in vast amounts of profit at the moment. Much of their profit is based on the pittance they pay their cruise staff, if they paid their shore side staff in the same way they would be in breach of minimum wage legislation. So by all means pay your staff fairly, plow some of the vast profit into fair wages and end the authorized fiddle of gratuities. Having let off some steam I'll still go on lots of cruises but I will still join the queue on the first morning to have the gratuities taken off of my bill.

sinbad10 and HLM like this

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Sorry but I don't agree with including the price of tips in with the price of the holiday. My understanding of a tip is that it is a reward for good service and this should be given at the end of the holiday, should you choose.

if you were to go out for a meal, I wouldn't dream of giving the waiter a tip before eating my meal, so why is going on a cruise any different.

Everybody should do what they feel is right and not what these companies want them to do..

sinbad10 and HLM like this

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I flatly refuse to pay gratuities for someone simply doing their job. If they do something which is above and beyond what is expected of them, then I may consider a gratuity to be appropriate. If the cruise companies paid their staff a proper wage there would not be the need for gratuities. If they paid a proper wage cruises may become too expensive for some and the Cruise Bubble the companies are enjoying at the moment will burst. Then see the prices tumble as they try to cut each others throats. Cruise companies are building bigger and better ships because they are raking in vast amounts of profit at the moment. Much of their profit is based on the pittance they pay their cruise staff, if they paid their shore side staff in the same way they would be in breach of minimum wage legislation. So by all means pay your staff fairly, plow some of the vast profit into fair wages and end the authorized fiddle of gratuities. Having let off some steam I'll still go on lots of cruises but I will still join the queue on the first morning to have the gratuities taken off of my bill.

First of all I really object to subsidising anyone who for whatever reason chooses not to pay tips. Secondly there’s no doubt a lot of people wouldn’t be able to cruise if the gratuities were included in the price and certainly not if the staff were more highly paid. I’m not sure the prices would tumble as I’m sure there will still be plenty of people prepared to pay the price for a cruise. At least I’d know I wasn’t subsidising anyone else.

SHAW likes this

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First of all I really object to subsidising anyone who for whatever reason chooses not to pay tips. Secondly there’s no doubt a lot of people wouldn’t be able to cruise if the gratuities were included in the price and certainly not if the staff were more highly paid. I’m not sure the prices would tumble as I’m sure there will still be plenty of people prepared to pay the price for a cruise. At least I’d know I wasn’t subsidising anyone else.

No disrespect Tally, but while tips remain discretionary you are not subsidising anyone, if I for whatever reason decide to withdraw from paying my gratuities how does that mean you are subsidising me?

The recommended rate wouldn't change because I withdrew, you'd pay the same anyway.

HLM.

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No disrespect Tally, but while tips remain discretionary you are not subsidising anyone, if I for whatever reason decide to withdraw from paying my gratuities how does that mean you are subsidising me?

The recommended rate wouldn't change because I withdrew, you'd pay the same anyway.

HLM.

With all due respect to you I do think I’m subsidising people. I’m sure we all know why P&O introduced auto-tipping. It was because the staff on the Arcadia 3/4 years ago?( I can’t quite remember), walked out because people were not paying the gratuities. What would happen if everyone decided to remove the auto-tips now? Of course not everyone will, which is exactly what P&O rely on. They rely on those people who can’t be bothered, or have a conscience, or don’t give it another thought to subsidise the people who are too mean, consider themselves too poor or are basically tightwads. I’m afraid that’s exactly how I see it.

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First of all I really object to subsidising anyone who for whatever reason chooses not to pay tips. Secondly there’s no doubt a lot of people wouldn’t be able to cruise if the gratuities were included in the price and certainly not if the staff were more highly paid. I’m not sure the prices would tumble as I’m sure there will still be plenty of people prepared to pay the price for a cruise. At least I’d know I wasn’t subsidising anyone else.

 

If they include the gratuities within the cruise price you say a lot wouldnt be able to cruise, I assume because they will not be able to afford too. So obviously you are recommending keep prices low and dont include gratuities in price so people can afford to cruise but then they will not be able to afford the gratuities when onboard so they will remove them which you seem to be against because you wil then be subsidising them. Also you seem to be against the staff being more highly paid because of reflection in cruise price. You seem to be contradicting yourself on a number of issues.

HLM likes this

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With all due respect to you I do think I’m subsidising people. I’m sure we all know why P&O introduced auto-tipping. It was because the staff on the Arcadia 3/4 years ago?( I can’t quite remember), walked out because people were not paying the gratuities. What would happen if everyone decided to remove the auto-tips now? Of course not everyone will, which is exactly what P&O rely on. They rely on those people who can’t be bothered, or have a conscience, or don’t give it another thought to subsidise the people who are too mean, consider themselves too poor or are basically tightwads. I’m afraid that’s exactly how I see it.

My understanding of the walk out incident was because 'P&O' were withholding the gratuities based on their performances, it had nothing to do about "people" not paying the gratuities.

http://www.cruiselawnews.com/2012/07/articles/crew-member-rights-1/carnival-fires-150-crew-members-from-india-for-protesting-low-cruise-ship-wages/

Like I said gratuities are in the most part discretionary, whether I pay or not doesn't impact on you at all, the current suggested rate on P&O is £5.50 pppd, you will pay that rate whether I pay or not, unless of course you're suggesting the 35% increase in the last two years simply is down to non payers, if so I'd like to see your evidence.

Also I'm no "tightwad" when I pay £5,000+ for a cruise that in my book covers the whole cost of the cruise, including the crews wages, if I decide to pay discretionary gratuities that's between me and the cruiseline, and no one else, but I will disclose that I've only ever opted out twice, this due to poor service, and rude crew members.

HLM.

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My understanding of the walk out incident was because 'P&O' were withholding the gratuities based on their performances, it had nothing to do about "people" not paying the gratuities.

http://www.cruiselawnews.com/2012/07/articles/crew-member-rights-1/carnival-fires-150-crew-members-from-india-for-protesting-low-cruise-ship-wages/

Like I said gratuities are in the most part discretionary, whether I pay or not doesn't impact on you at all, the current suggested rate on P&O is £5.50 pppd, you will pay that rate whether I pay or not, unless of course you're suggesting the 35% increase in the last two years simply is down to non payers, if so I'd like to see your evidence.

Also I'm no "tightwad" when I pay £5,000+ for a cruise that in my book covers the whole cost of the cruise, including the crews wages, if I decide to pay discretionary gratuities that's between me and the cruiseline, and no one else, but I will disclose that I've only ever opted out twice, this due to poor service, and rude crew members.

HLM.

I think you are incorrect there HLM at the time of the protest I don't believe P&O had introduced the auto gratuities so no monies were being held back based on their performance, we were on the previous cruise to this and I can tell you there were an awful lot of unhappy crew for whatever reason, one thing I am positive of though, we have never paid auto grats on P&O ( 4/5 years since we last sailed with them ) it has always been 'money in the envelope' which they got to keep.

 

Whatever decisions the cruise lines make to determine we 'the customer' indirectly contribute to the crew wages should be a fair way so how can you say it you pay £5000 for a cruise and someone else pays £5000 + gratuities they are not subsidising those who take them off lbh not all those who take them off will be putting cash in an envelope so in theory those who do leave them on are paying more therefore subsidising others.

Tally likes this

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If they include the gratuities within the cruise price you say a lot wouldnt be able to cruise, I assume because they will not be able to afford too. So obviously you are recommending keep prices low and dont include gratuities in price so people can afford to cruise but then they will not be able to afford the gratuities when onboard so they will remove them which you seem to be against because you wil then be subsidising them. Also you seem to be against the staff being more highly paid because of reflection in cruise price. You seem to be contradicting yourself on a number of issues.

I’m not quite sure why you think I’m contradicting myself. My response was to Alan G’s post and I thought I made myself clear. I’m most certainly not against including the gratuities in the price of a cruise. I really wish they would. I’m not recommending they keep the prices low either for me that’s part of the problem. I hope that's clear enough.

 

 

 

My understanding of the walk out incident was because 'P&O' were withholding the gratuities based on their performances, it had nothing to do about "people" not paying the gratuities.

http://www.cruiselawnews.com/2012/07/articles/crew-member-rights-1/carnival-fires-150-crew-members-from-india-for-protesting-low-cruise-ship-wages/

Like I said gratuities are in the most part discretionary, whether I pay or not doesn't impact on you at all, the current suggested rate on P&O is £5.50 pppd, you will pay that rate whether I pay or not, unless of course you're suggesting the 35% increase in the last two years simply is down to non payers, if so I'd like to see your evidence.

Also I'm no "tightwad" when I pay £5,000+ for a cruise that in my book covers the whole cost of the cruise, including the crews wages, if I decide to pay discretionary gratuities that's between me and the cruiseline, and no one else, but I will disclose that I've only ever opted out twice, this due to poor service, and rude crew members.

HLM.

Did I say you personally were a tightwad, I don’t think so. You’ve explained that you’ve withheld gratuities because of bad service. I think that’s fair enough. It’s people who remove the gratuities at the beginning of a cruise because they don’t feel they should pay them I have a problem with. I'm afraid I don't have the evidence you require. The incident on the Arcadia was as I recalled it and also from talking about it to staff on various cruises 

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If my memory serves me correctly the incident with the walk out of the Arcadia staff was during the Alaska cruise in 2010.  The ship had completed its world cruise, had done a few shorter cruises and then embarked on a further very long cruise.  The staff, who had had reduced tips paid to them during the worldie, also then started to have reduced tips paid to them during the longer Alaska cruise and were fed up.   This was possibly one of the reasons for introducing Auto paid tips as there weren't auto tips back than, other than on Ventura which had a freedom restaurant.

 

I agree, I think the rate of the tips goes up because so many people don't tip - therefore those who do are effectively subsidising those who don't.

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Also, I think it has now gone too far.  Personally, and this is from one who has always left the Auto tips on, I would not pay $13.50 a day pp.  The service we received on Fred Olsen's Braemar in May was excellent - couldn't fault it in any way - and yet Fred's tips are £4 per day.    I'm not sure how that equates with Princess and the comments about service levels - completely unacceptable IMO.

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I think you are incorrect there HLM at the time of the protest I don't believe P&O had introduced the auto gratuities so no monies were being held back based on their performance, we were on the previous cruise to this and I can tell you there were an awful lot of unhappy crew for whatever reason, one thing I am positive of though, we have never paid auto grats on P&O ( 4/5 years since we last sailed with them ) it has always been 'money in the envelope' which they got to keep.

Whatever decisions the cruise lines make to determine we 'the customer' indirectly contribute to the crew wages should be a fair way so how can you say it you pay £5000 for a cruise and someone else pays £5000 + gratuities they are not subsidising those who take them off lbh not all those who take them off will be putting cash in an envelope so in theory those who do leave them on are paying more therefore subsidising others.

The suggestion was that P&O introduced auto grats simply because people didn't pay their gratuities, which is totally wrong.

With regards to subsidising I'll say it again gratuities are optional and discretionary, no one subsidises anyone.

I pay the headline price which includes all services, I'm under no obligation to pay anymore, if you pay your auto grats then so be it, you're not paying any extra because of me, of that I'm certain, unless of course you can prove otherwise.

HLM.

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I’m not quite sure why you think I’m contradicting myself. My response was to Alan G’s post and I thought I made myself clear. I’m most certainly not against including the gratuities in the price of a cruise. I really wish they would. I’m not recommending they keep the prices low either for me that’s part of the problem. I hope that's clear enough.

Did I say you personally were a tightwad, I don’t think so. You’ve explained that you’ve withheld gratuities because of bad service. I think that’s fair enough. It’s people who remove the gratuities at the beginning of a cruise because they don’t feel they should pay them I have a problem with. I'm afraid I don't have the evidence you require. The incident on the Arcadia was as I recalled it and also from talking about it to staff on various cruises

Did you call me a tightwad, perhaps not directly, but you're indirectly insulting hundreds of people just because they have different priorities to yourself.

Cruising as you know is an expensive business, especially for families, a family of four will pay the best part of £300 autograts on a 14nt P&O cruise, if they decide to opt out who are we to criticise, we don't know their personal circumstances, they maybe at the top end of their budget, and because it's optional choose to opt out so they can afford the cruise.

I personally can't be bothered about what others do, if they pay or opt out it's up to them, it has no cost implications on me whatsoever.

HLM.

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Did you call me a tightwad, perhaps not directly, but you're indirectly insulting hundreds of people just because they have different priorities to yourself.

Cruising as you know is an expensive business, especially for families, a family of four will pay the best part of £300 autograts on a 14nt P&O cruise, if they decide to opt out who are we to criticise, we don't know their personal circumstances, they maybe at the top end of their budget, and because it's optional choose to opt out so they can afford the cruise.

I personally can't be bothered about what others do, if they pay or opt out it's up to them, it has no cost implications on me whatsoever.

HLM.

So you feel sorry for people who shortchange the staff who wait on them hand and foot? Staff who are probably even poorer and who can only dream of taking a cruise. I know where my sympathies lie. As for calling people who do this tightwads I make no apology for that.

*Dancing Queen* likes this

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So you feel sorry for people who shortchange the staff who wait on them hand and foot? Staff who are probably even poorer and who can only dream of taking a cruise. I know where my sympathies lie. As for calling people who do this tightwads I make no apology for that.

Look Tally we will never agree when it comes to tipping I think we both accept that.

But the only people who are possibly short changing the crew are the cruise lines themselves, not you or I, when I go into a high street store I pay the price on the label, the store pays the wages from the profits, I'm not expected to pay a gratuity on top, why are cruiselines any different?

The problem is they are working in the dark ages, but in an advanced manner, years ago a gratuity was an extra payment for services received above and beyond our expectations, a private transaction between you and the individual crew members, all done without the expectation from the crew, they were in them days all payed a living wage, and not reliant on tips.

Cruiselines jumped on that several years ago and are now expecting people to pay in advance for services not yet received, which is totally against the ethos of tipping.

I've said this before, if people are so worried about crew welfare and the lack of earnings then perhaps they shouldn't cruise, if all they can do is worry about it.

HLM.

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Look Tally we will never agree when it comes to tipping I think we both accept that.

But the only people who are possibly short changing the crew are the cruise lines themselves, not you or I, when I go into a high street store I pay the price on the label, the store pays the wages from the profits, I'm not expected to pay a gratuity on top, why are cruiselines any different?

The problem is they are working in the dark ages, but in an advanced manner, years ago a gratuity was an extra payment for services received above and beyond our expectations, a private transaction between you and the individual crew members, all done without the expectation from the crew, they were in them days all payed a living wage, and not reliant on tips.

Cruiselines jumped on that several years ago and are now expecting people to pay in advance for services not yet received, which is totally against the ethos of tipping.

I've said this before, if people are so worried about crew welfare and the lack of earnings then perhaps they shouldn't cruise, if all they can do is worry about it.

HLM.

Yes HLM I'm afraid we are poles apart in our thinking.

Are you saying you don’t care about the staff?  I’m struggling to understand your logic. Isn’t it the better option for the people who care about the staff and pay the gratuities to continue cruising. Surely it should be the people who resent the policies of the cruise companies and the vast profits they make that should give up cruising. By withholding the gratuities they aren’t punishing the company but the hardworking people who expect to receive the gratuities.  If I ever decide I’m not happy with a company making a profit out of me I’ll stop cruising with that company.

BTW I don't worry about the welfare of the staff or their earnings because I never shortchange them. Meanwhile I look forward to the day when the gratuities system is done away with and they are included in the price of a cruise. Then you, I and the staff will all be happy. 

*Dancing Queen* likes this

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