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P&O Gratuities

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12 hours ago, Captain Kidd II said:

To my knowledge the breakdown has never been provided by P&O.

It was a long time ago but they roughly divided the tips between Cabin and waiting staff,Bar staff got a small percentage of each drink served, Celebrity use to publish there method of distribution but no longer do.which IMO does not do them any favours  .

I am sure the public would feel happier knowing how the tip's they hand over are paid out...Davybe

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In the old days before auto gratuities P&O used to place a card in your cabin stating the suggested amounts of £xx and £xx for cabin and dining stewards so it was presumed whatever you gave in the envelopes to the respective people they kept, it is a question which is repeatedly asked now and if the replies are to be believed the % division is still the same but the difference being gratuities are now 'pooled'.

I suggested a while ago the only way to get a definitive answer to this is to ask P&O who will fob you off with what it states in the brochure, it depends how much you want to know where your money actually goes and to whom, if it's important to you I would ask P&O to give you a £ for £ breakdown and keep pushing them until they do, there has also been some controversy about crew not receiving the full amount if they don't score a certain % rate on the passenger feed back forms tbh if I wanted to know anything it would be what happens to 'my money' if they don't receive it .. as far as I'm concerned when I have paid gratuities it is my indication that I have been happy with the service provided and the people providing that service, just because Joe Bloggs three cabins down or two tables away decides differently to me shouldn't imo have any impact on what the crew members I want to reward should get, unfortunately because there are people who have no intention of paying gratuities at all for whatever reason it has resulted ( again imo ) of a very unfair system being introduced.

Personally I would just like to see gratuities included in the headline price which would make it a level playing field for all.

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1 hour ago, *Dancing Queen* said:

In the old days before auto gratuities P&O used to place a card in your cabin stating the suggested amounts of £xx and £xx for cabin and dining stewards so it was presumed whatever you gave in the envelopes to the respective people they kept, it is a question which is repeatedly asked now and if the replies are to be believed the % division is still the same but the difference being gratuities are now 'pooled'.

I suggested a while ago the only way to get a definitive answer to this is to ask P&O who will fob you off with what it states in the brochure, it depends how much you want to know where your money actually goes and to whom, if it's important to you I would ask P&O to give you a £ for £ breakdown and keep pushing them until they do, there has also been some controversy about crew not receiving the full amount if they don't score a certain % rate on the passenger feed back forms tbh if I wanted to know anything it would be what happens to 'my money' if they don't receive it .. as far as I'm concerned when I have paid gratuities it is my indication that I have been happy with the service provided and the people providing that service, just because Joe Bloggs three cabins down or two tables away decides differently to me shouldn't imo have any impact on what the crew members I want to reward should get, unfortunately because there are people who have no intention of paying gratuities at all for whatever reason it has resulted ( again imo ) of a very unfair system being introduced.

Personally I would just like to see gratuities included in the headline price which would make it a level playing field for all.

 

That is one question I have asked P&O direct and on their Facebook page and on many forums if as they clearly state that if staff have not received a high enough rating on the questionnaire that they do not receive the full amount of Service Reward programme where does that extra money that is withheld by P&O actually go do other staff get extra and if not where does it go. Surprisingly I have been given different answers by P&O with no definitive answer and as there is no black hole so it must go somewhere and fear it goes into P&Os coffers to boost their profits which is totally unfair because passengers give this money with good intentions.

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Quite honestly I have no idea why people get so bent out of shape as to where the gratuities go. They are expected so we pay them. If I feel people deserve extra and we often do  we give them extra. If I felt as some people do that I am paying into P&O's profits  and I actually cared, then I'd choose a different cruise line. I certainly wouldn't remove the auto tips because like everyone else I have no idea at all who benefits or doesn't from the auto tips.

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i think its a very british thing as tipping hasnt been a huge part of our psychy.

whereas in the states and other places it has always been a part of the culture.

as with the anger over restaurants etc keeping some if not all of  tips i think people do rightly get upset if tips do not get to the individuals they are intended for.

as for auto tips i think this has been introduced as some seem to refuse to tip anyone either on principle or because thay are simply too tight.

some individuals ive met on cruises seem to have the life mission to have a zero on board account and spend no money whatsoever.

on one cruise back in the nineties one guy would turn up in a bar with a coffee from the outdoor buffet area and go and get refills through the night i kid you not. he said i dont drink alcohol so why should i pay bar prices for soft drinks and coffee when they are free upstairs.

i leave the auto tips simply as a cost of the cruise. if i then feel someone has gone above and beyond i give cash personally at the end and tell them not to pool it. hopefully it then stays with who it was intended for.

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29 minutes ago, mitch said:

i think its a very british thing as tipping hasnt been a huge part of our psychy.

whereas in the states and other places it has always been a part of the culture.

as with the anger over restaurants etc keeping some if not all of  tips i think people do rightly get upset if tips do not get to the individuals they are intended for.

as for auto tips i think this has been introduced as some seem to refuse to tip anyone either on principle or because thay are simply too tight.

some individuals ive met on cruises seem to have the life mission to have a zero on board account and spend no money whatsoever.

on one cruise back in the nineties one guy would turn up in a bar with a coffee from the outdoor buffet area and go and get refills through the night i kid you not. he said i dont drink alcohol so why should i pay bar prices for soft drinks and coffee when they are free upstairs.

i leave the auto tips simply as a cost of the cruise. if i then feel someone has gone above and beyond i give cash personally at the end and tell them not to pool it. hopefully it then stays with who it was intended for.

 

Whilst I agree with your statement in the majority the issue with UK cruisers not tipping like Americans yes it is a culture thing but also those working in the service sector in the US they are paid a lot less and their national minimum wage is a lot lower than in the UK. My concern having cruised with P&O for 16yrs until recently the statement you made "hopefully it then stays with who it was intended for" it has never been made clear by P&O with many differing answers from them especially what seems to be common practice that if any member of staff does not meet the agreed percentage mark for standards and if not they lose some of their Service Reward where does this money left given in good faith actually go.

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i agree just because another person has had an issue with someone it shouldnt affect where my tip goes. and tips should not in anyway end up in the companies pocket. be that a restaurant,cruise ship or whatever. people are tipping the staff not p&o. ratings/feedback should be a matter for hr and appropriate training given or disciplinary action taken not something that reduces remuneration especially tips.

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21 hours ago, Tally said:

Quite honestly I have no idea why people get so bent out of shape as to where the gratuities go. They are expected so we pay them. If I feel people deserve extra and we often do  we give them extra. If I felt as some people do that I am paying into P&O's profits  and I actually cared, then I'd choose a different cruise line. I certainly wouldn't remove the auto tips because like everyone else I have no idea at all who benefits or doesn't from the auto tips.

I think the reason that people get 'Out of Shape' over where the gratuities go Tally is simply they want to tip the people who have served them and made their cruise enjoyable not the company that has already had its profit out of the fare. I also disagree the staff should only receive their gratuity or full gratuity if they get excellent on the score sheet. I personally very seldom give 'Excellent' as to me it is a standard which cannot be bettered ( dictionary says outstanding quality, superior merit, remarkably good) and that is seldom true of service on a cruises ship for a number of reasons. 

When someone pays the auto gratuities I think it fair to say they believe the money is going to the staff. If the staff don't get the full amount where does the balance go and should the balance be returned to the passenger who in good faith believed it was going to the staff. 

There was a lot to be said in favour of the old method of tipping but times have changed and the sooner the gratuities are included in the fare the better.

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2 hours ago, Oldworldtraveller said:

I think the reason that people get 'Out of Shape' over where the gratuities go Tally is simply they want to tip the people who have served them and made their cruise enjoyable not the company that has already had its profit out of the fare. I also disagree the staff should only receive their gratuity or full gratuity if they get excellent on the score sheet. I personally very seldom give 'Excellent' as to me it is a standard which cannot be bettered ( dictionary says outstanding quality, superior merit, remarkably good) and that is seldom true of service on a cruises ship for a number of reasons. 

When someone pays the auto gratuities I think it fair to say they believe the money is going to the staff. If the staff don't get the full amount where does the balance go and should the balance be returned to the passenger who in good faith believed it was going to the staff. 

There was a lot to be said in favour of the old method of tipping but times have changed and the sooner the gratuities are included in the fare the better.

I have always said I think that gratuities should be included in the fare. Of course the money should go to the staff. However I get so fed up of reading the speculation that goes on. My point is gratuities are expected. Neither you nor I or anyone else knows what happens to them. As I said if it bothered me that much I would only cruise with a company who included the gratuities in the price. I wouldn't waste my time arguing the point of why I shouldn't pay them, or in some cases justifying why I shouldn't pay them, on a forum.

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If the gratuity is included in the fare then it cannot be a gratuity but forms a wage payment. I must say, after so much discussion, I have reverted to the old system of tipping and have removed the auto method. At least I know who I have tipped and am happy to give to those who make my cruise enjoyable.

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8 hours ago, Tally said:

My point is gratuities are expected. Neither you nor I or anyone else knows what happens to them.

But they shouldn't be expected Tally, as most cruiselines operate a discretionary gratuity system expecting them is naive in my opinion.

Also because I don't know where they are going, that's just one of the reasons I no longer pay autograts and pay individuals as I see fit.

HLM.

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6 hours ago, Captain Kidd II said:

If the gratuity is included in the fare then it cannot be a gratuity but forms a wage payment. I must say, after so much discussion, I have reverted to the old system of tipping and have removed the auto method. At least I know who I have tipped and am happy to give to those who make my cruise enjoyable.

That pretty much sums up my thoughts Captain, go back to the good old days and let people pay what they feel is appropriate, it worked then and no doubt it would now, it may also force the cruiselines to pay a decent wage instead of relying on us the customer.

HLM.

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What 'good old days' would they be ?? 

I have been cruising for 30 years and as long as I can remember the cruise companies have given 'guide lines' with regard to tipping which in the early days I found extremely helpful as I really didn't have a clue what was 'appropriate'

It is all well and good to say the cruiselines should pay a decent wage instead of relying on 'us the customer' but that won't happen or if it did then will you be happy to see the cost of your cruise rise significantly to cover that 'decent wage' ??

Like it or not gratuities are here to stay whether they are paid directly to the crew, automatically added to your account or included in the price, what is needed though is a level playing field for all because what one feels is 'appropriate' doesn't necessarily mean it is, we all get ( mostly ) the same excellent service at imo a very good price but still people fail to realise we only get this because the crew are led to believe 'we the customer' will reward that good service, rightly or wrongly it is the way cruiselines operate and if you don't like it then there are alternative holidays.

 

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3 hours ago, HLM said:

That pretty much sums up my thoughts Captain, go back to the good old days and let people pay what they feel is appropriate, it worked then and no doubt it would now, it may also force the cruiselines to pay a decent wage instead of relying on us the customer.

HLM.

I think what people seem to have forgotten is the reason auto-tipping was brought in by P&O. It was because people weren't tipping and the staff walked out. So they weren't such good old days for the staff and it clearly wasn't working.

Where people have the idea that the British don't have a tipping culture I don't know. I know my generation and the one before have always tipped. I remember my mother tipping the boys who delivered our groceries on a pushbike. I've always tipped hairdressers, taxi drivers, waiting staff in restaurants. Perhaps it's the 'new cruisers' companies are so keen to attract who don't consider tipping as part of our culture. 

I do agree with Dancing Queen if the cruise companies paid the staff more then a lot of people would be moaning that cruising was now preserve of the wealthy. 

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5 hours ago, *Dancing Queen* said:

What 'good old days' would they be ?? 

I have been cruising for 30 years and as long as I can remember the cruise companies have given 'guide lines' with regard to tipping which in the early days I found extremely helpful as I really didn't have a clue what was 'appropriate'

It is all well and good to say the cruiselines should pay a decent wage instead of relying on 'us the customer' but that won't happen or if it did then will you be happy to see the cost of your cruise rise significantly to cover that 'decent wage' ??

Like it or not gratuities are here to stay whether they are paid directly to the crew, automatically added to your account or included in the price, what is needed though is a level playing field for all because what one feels is 'appropriate' doesn't necessarily mean it is, we all get ( mostly ) the same excellent service at imo a very good price but still people fail to realise we only get this because the crew are led to believe 'we the customer' will reward that good service, rightly or wrongly it is the way cruiselines operate and if you don't like it then there are alternative holidays.

 

You seem to have a bee in your bonnet DQ, I too remember 30 yrs ago, a time when there was no pressure put upon the customer to tip, it was at my discretion and between me and the individuals I chose to reward and at a level that suited me not the cruiselines.

Gratuities maybe here to stay but I'll choose whether to pay them or not, if they decide to incorporate them in the fare, then so be it, if they get greedy though, I can easily choose a land based holiday, their loss not mine.

HLM.

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4 hours ago, Tally said:

I think what people seem to have forgotten is the reason auto-tipping was brought in by P&O. It was because people weren't tipping and the staff walked out. So they weren't such good old days for the staff and it clearly wasn't working.

Where people have the idea that the British don't have a tipping culture I don't know. I know my generation and the one before have always tipped. I remember my mother tipping the boys who delivered our groceries on a pushbike. I've always tipped hairdressers, taxi drivers, waiting staff in restaurants. Perhaps it's the 'new cruisers' companies are so keen to attract who don't consider tipping as part of our culture. 

I do agree with Dancing Queen if the cruise companies paid the staff more then a lot of people would be moaning that cruising was now preserve of the wealthy. 

In my opinion the auto grats were brought in so P&O and the like could exploit the generosity of the customers, and save themselves money by keeping their wage bill as low as they could.

I agree about our British tipping culture, I've always tried to give a little extra to those you've mentioned, however I've not once received an instruction from the hairdresser or the taxi drivers boss telling me what level of tip I should give, and that's the difference here.

HLM.

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I get very annoyed about auto gratuities. It is a fix by the company to try to keep the headline price as low as possible. I have had poor service from the laundry and great service from the steward but auto gratuity removed the scope of rewarding those who make our trip special. I now automatically ask for the auto gratuity to be significantly reduced and give a separate reward to those who please me. I don't mean those who do a good job - I expect that - I reward those who provide exceptional service.

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1 hour ago, HLM said:

You seem to have a bee in your bonnet DQ, I too remember 30 yrs ago, a time when there was no pressure put upon the customer to tip, it was at my discretion and between me and the individuals I chose to reward and at a level that suited me not the cruiselines.

Gratuities maybe here to stay but I'll choose whether to pay them or not, if they decide to incorporate them in the fare, then so be it, if they get greedy though, I can easily choose a land based holiday, their loss not mine.

HLM.

No bee in my bonnet HLM it just becomes tedious when the same subject keeps going around and around, you are of course entitled to do whatever you want to just as I am and no doubt we will. 

Such a shame though that the ones who really miss out are the crew who go out of their way to ensure we have a good time, as I said gratuities should be part of the total cost .. a level playing field for all !! 

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7 hours ago, HLM said:

In my opinion the auto grats were brought in so P&O and the like could exploit the generosity of the customers, and save themselves money by keeping their wage bill as low as they could.

I agree about our British tipping culture, I've always tried to give a little extra to those you've mentioned, however I've not once received an instruction from the hairdresser or the taxi drivers boss telling me what level of tip I should give, and that's the difference here.

HLM.

Sorry I really don’t think that was why auto tips were introduced and I think you are splitting hairs here. I am glad that you at least agree tipping has always been part of our culture.

 I gather then that the problem you have with tips is being told how much to pay.  It’s a guideline and a lot of people pay the amount suggested. Why should they and others not? Which brings us back to the point that if they were included in the price of the cruise everyone would be happy. Except of course those who want cheaper cruises

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7 hours ago, Tally said:

Sorry I really don’t think that was why auto tips were introduced and I think you are splitting hairs here.

Well I think we'll need to agree to disagree Tally.

You are however quite correct, I don't agree with them even suggesting how much they think I should pay, it is and always should be discretionary, in my opinion P&O shouldn't even involve themselves, leave it between myself and the crew.

I'll never buy in to that old nonsence that when they introduced auto grats they did so to look after their employees, I'm in no doubt P&O profit from auto grats and that in my opinion is fundamentally wrong.

With regards to including it in the headline price that's fine, I personally don't think it'll have any great impact on price because if they price to high bookings will go down, simple as that.

HLM.

 

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2 hours ago, HLM said:

Well I think we'll need to agree to disagree Tally.

You are however quite correct, I don't agree with them even suggesting how much they think I should pay, it is and always should be discretionary, in my opinion P&O shouldn't even involve themselves, leave it between myself and the crew.

I'll never buy in to that old nonsence that when they introduced auto grats they did so to look after their employees, I'm in no doubt P&O profit from auto grats and that in my opinion is fundamentally wrong.

With regards to including it in the headline price that's fine, I personally don't think it'll have any great impact on price because if they price to high bookings will go down, simple as that.

HLM.

 

I think we've always disagreed about the gratuities haven't we. Anyhow perhaps one day P&O and other companies will realise the best thing to do would be to include them with the price of the  cruise. At least it will put an end to these relentless threads with all the speculation as to what happens to the tips and who gets what etc.:rolleyes:

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